I forgot about this thread and only now was reminded that it exists. Hopefully someone joins me in bringing it to life, since I'm sure many people have something to say about at least one of a few dozen past characters.

Anyway, Yukari. One her characteristic that is crucial to me but I noted is absent in past posts is that she's the main ideologue of Gensokyo. Other people may repeat ideas like "there must be balance in Gensokyo", "humans must fear and exterminate youkai", "youkai must threaten humans", but what if we look closer? Reimu simply enforces this ideology without ever reflecting on it or questioning it, Akyuu is explicitly under Yukari's influence (she reviews her writings), what of Aya, just a quote from >>17522:
>Ran has outright said that Yukari gives orders no-one else can even think of, and that she could never understand, much less solve Yukari's equations. And Ran's article in BAiJR, where she says all this, is specifically about the kitsune being extremely intelligent.
That's just a classic example of media framing and manipulation. It's also Yukari who goes at length to enforce those ideas the most - her Bougetsushou scheme about Eirin and Kaguya, who supposedly must fear youkai because they chose human life (however hypocritical that sounds when you look at series' protagonists, for one). The ultimate expression of them, of course, is Gensokyo itself. Sure, other beings were involved in its creation, but as I understand Okina doesn't really care about ideas side and Kasen is more on the enforcing side and cares more about different things including herself (I confess I still haven't read WaHH so feel free to argue me down here especially), so, as I see it, Yukari always was the heart and driver of Gensokyo project, enlisting like-minded people under her banner. Due to all that, my personal view of her over time shifted to something like of a respectable antagonist - she is an architect of distasteful, overbearing status quo built on pretense, theatrics and hypocrisy, but she has clear reasons for doing what she does and has the competency to back it - she's definitely a masterful schemer, able to herd others toward working on her goals, in that I agree with both original posters. It's just my heart isn't on her side.

Another side of her is that she's essentially to me a youkai who desperately tries to look youkai-like. It's, of course, articles by Aya and Akyuu describing her in what light she needs (and touhou fans buy into it!), but also her general behaviour. I see what >>17523 and >>17525 describe as desire and self-inflicted duty to look mysterious, distant and whimsical, to maintain airs of a youkai sage - even if she feels lonely as a result.

Also, it's a bit weird no one mentioned Maribel thing, but Yukari being a former human ties in nicely with the above, even though it may be a bad taste. Also, it's sometimes mentioned that Yukari has mokumokuren traits - my idea is that she took them at one point to tie himself to an existing youkai and look even more youkai-like.

>>17522
>My personal read is that she's just one of those people that's extremely confident in themselves. She knows she can effortlessly run circles around 99% of Gensokyo, whether that's in scheming or just outright danmaku. As such, she doesn't feel the need to prove anything to herself or others, and is a more dangerous schemer because of it.
Because of this "desire to look like", I don't think Yukari is really confident. In her scheming abilities - maybe, as a professional, but not in herself, and that shows sometimes. It's just she's a good actor to not let it show most of the time.

>It's difficult to even come up with a scenario that would meaningfully break Yukari's confidence, given that she's extremely good at scheming and ultimately on Gensokyo's side. Delivering a defeat that she wouldn't just shrug off would likely mean shattering the status quo in some form or another, and if you want it to be one she can't recover from and hit back harder, you're probably looking at apocalypse level damage.
I think to really shake Yukari, it's not necessary to inflict some actual damage to Gensokyo (though destroying her works certainly would affect her). Think Bougetsushou's ending - some symbolic act of defeating her, of seeing a person beneath her youkai mystique is, in my opinion, is what will be most painful for her.

>>17525
>From these two instances we see that Yukari does have plans that go accordingly, but they aren't perfect. Perfect for Yukari seems to be anything she doesn't need to put her hand in, she stirs the pot only enough to stir others into action, otherwise she handles things without anyone knowing.
Well, isn't exactly that a mark of a good schemer? As an adage goes, no plan survives reality, but Yukari adapts and makes others step in to do what she needs.

>>17971
Exactly, yes. That's a spot-on read - at least that's what I believe is the most accurate to the text and the most compelling. All of this is actually why I dislike this character a fair bit - it started out pretty shallow, I simply didn't like her th8 appearance and its overrepresentarion in fanart (not a fan of that white underdress), but the more I learnt about her, the more that dislike became akin to resentment and indignation. The whole Gensokyo charade may be relatively harmless, but that kind of person is actually very dangerous! These people make for good fictional characters, but I can never fully enjoy watching them, because a magnificent bastard is really just a bastard in real life, and it's always at the back of my mind no matter what.

>Another side of her is that she's essentially to me a youkai who desperately tries to look youkai-like. It's, of course, articles by Aya and Akyuu describing her in what light she needs (and touhou fans buy into it!), but also her general behaviour. I see what >>17523 and >>17525 describe as desire and self-inflicted duty to look mysterious, distant and whimsical, to maintain airs of a youkai sage - even if she feels lonely as a result.
Oh yes. She very much seems like someone who is trying to project an image, though I believe that it's not exactly hard to detect that this image is deliberately invoked and not natural. People like that are annoying, right? Even if you can't exactly see through it, you can still tell that they're showing off, and they insist on it, they never drop it, it's much like the uncanny valley effect, annoying, right? It's even worse when they're trying to appear distant, or nonchalant.
Which is why
>Because of this "desire to look like", I don't think Yukari is really confident. In her scheming abilities - maybe, as a professional, but not in herself, and that shows sometimes. It's just she's a good actor to not let it show most of the time.
I agree. Her confident air is really just a part of that same image, isn't it?

>Also, it's sometimes mentioned that Yukari has mokumokuren traits - my idea is that she took them at one point to tie himself to an existing youkai and look even more youkai-like.
That's clever! Merry would do something like that.

>some symbolic act of defeating her, of seeing a person beneath her youkai mystique is, in my opinion, is what will be most painful for her.
Exactly. The worst you can do to such a person is not take them seriously, not buy into their game. Well, it requires a certain amount of power to be meaningful, so it's not as simple as it may sound, really...

Well, even despite it all, Yukari is a pretty compelling character, as such cospirators usually are. It would be quite interesting to read about Merry's descent into Yukari, there's a great exploration of character to be had here. (whether they're "canonically" the same person or not)

>>17972
>>It would be quite interesting to read about Merry's descent into Yukari, there's a great exploration of character to be had here. (whether they're "canonically" the same person or not)

Yukari's backstory is fertile ground for stories, yet I haven't heard of a fanfiction nor doujin creation that covers it.
If you weave in her namesake Lafcadio Hearn's story into that narrative I think you could have something very compelling.
Perhaps she was foreign Christian too before forsaking Christ and her humanity? She could have been inspired by the real Lafcadio's story, mourning the loss of culture in the secular future, went back in time to change that future but could only manage to create a refuge for the old beings, Gensokyo, rather than snuffing the secular revolution in its cradle?

>>17974
>Perhaps she was foreign Christian too before forsaking Christ and her humanity? She could have been inspired by the real Lafcadio's story, mourning the loss of culture in the secular future, went back in time to change that future but could only manage to create a refuge for the old beings, Gensokyo, rather than snuffing the secular revolution in its cradle?
Yeah, I thin Yukari probably has an additional justification like that, sure she probably has some personal emotional justification, but given the trajectory of the outside world. If the outside world is growing to be apocalyptic due to humans over running the earth, then maybe you do something like create an experiment and put humans under different conditions to try to get a better result.

>>17972
I think Yukari if she is Maribel, is definitely tainted by a lot of loss and baggage, I've heard people say that Renko could be Chang'e as well. But I have no idea how that would happen as it has way less evidence and seems pretty far fetched.

>>17978
>I've heard people say that Renko could be Chang'e as well. But I have no idea how that would happen as it has way less evidence and seems pretty far fetched.
I don't particularly like any "Renko is [a different Touhou character]" theories, because they defeat the point of the character as I see it. Renko may be smart and imaginative, but she's really just a normal girl who had the misfortune of befriending Merry with all of Merry's strange changeable dreams, hell travels and Yakumo Yukaries. A kind of foil, I guess.

Anyway, if we are going to attempt to revive the discussion, then I'd like to talk about Alice. I've been commissioned to draw her, so, in a way, I'm actually obligated to think about her, but I like her anyway, and can articulate why, so why not.

>>17189
Yes, exactly. I agree with your read. She really is basically a dedicated doll otaku. It's probably why I like her as much as I do - we share that hobby! I've only been at it for a few years, but I'm a doll and figurine collector and customizer too. In that sense, she's instantly very easy to relate to. I also definitely see how she would be the type to appreciate the craftsmanship of any given thing first and foremost - a dedicated craftsman like her would naturally care about the skill, the technique, the method, the process through and through, the fine details, the deliberation. Alice is a hands-on aesthete. And, you know, as refined and passionate as it may seem, it's actually a bit limiting! Because of this tendency, I'd say she would also be someone who naturally fixates on small details and technicalities too much, which is why I believe her ability to put concepts together to form a bigger picture or articulate what that bigger picture is might suffer. It's not anything immediately apparent, she's obviously not an airhead or an idiot, and certainly doesn't look like one from the outside - she knows how to appear intelligent, clearly, and has enough restraint to do it. I just believe that she would think in different, more narrow and static terms. Well, at least that's what being too used to such thinking patterns leads to, from what I know.
She's not the social type either, appearing to be quite self-sufficient, easily able to entertain herself when alone, usually with her beloved craft. It's an admirable trait, isn't it? A healthy, non-maladaptive kind of introversion. She seems to be quite cold too, not rude or unpleasant, quite polite, but distant. I don't like it when she's portrayed as secretly lonely and longing for company, though. Maybe some find it cute in a tsundere kind of way, but I believe she genuinely enjoys solitude, or maybe doesn't even view it as such, being surrounded by dolls and all. She doesn't strike me as someone to put on a tough air to hide behind either. She cares about her appearance, but that's different from trying to project an image. It seems to be an extension of her appreciation for aesthetics more than anything.

Speaking of her appearance, even if I'm not crazy about it or anything, her outfit is pretty good. Fanworks don't even really butcher it all that much, and it's kind of hard to butcher, as it's pretty balanced even if you simplify it or do some details differently. The shape of her dress gives her an elegant and slender silhouette, and the lace trims are pleasantly sharp. That triangular lace shape gives skirts and ribbons a special kind of edge, it feels very good to look at. The black fasteners on her chest give her an orderly feel and serve as nice small contrasting accents on main fabric of the dress. Of course, I'm the boots she was given in the fighting games are quite stylish too. Anything even remotely oldschool lolita-like looks great with boots. (But her clothes are not lolita - the skirt's shape and length do not fit the style. It's just the atmosphere she gives off.)
Her th5 version isn't bad either, I like it as well. It's not a particularly inspired design, but it's nice for what it is, and it is a good kind of preamble to her later "adult" design, in retrospect. It also looks fitting for a child character, and she is most likely intended to be a child in th5.

So, really, it's natural to interpret her th5 appearance as her child version and draw all sorts of conclusions from that. I think of it this way too. Stemming from that, my interpretation isn't exactly original: I believe her to be a Makai resident by nature - though she tells people like Akyuu she is just a youkai magician to avoid being pestered about it. While these species are functionally similar, a Makai person is an artificial construct made by Shinki. Alice is her best work so far, she is very much like a living thing. Because she was raised as Shinki's child, the doll manipulation magic is actually a weaker version of her creator's ability to create these magical automatons and worlds for them to inhabit. Of course, she wasn't taught nearly enough to create a whole neo-Makai of her own, but she can approach Shinki's power with rigorous study. Of course, a construct like her may only really approach it - at least that's what she believes. Her dream for now is to make an autonomous, "living" doll. It is interesting to think about, a doll who loves to make other dolls. Well, a kind of doll, I guess. Not really.
Of course, her and Shinki's or even Sariel's approaches to the craft are different, but going into getail about them would be off-topic.

Anyway, Alice may not be my absolute favourite character, but she is quite loveable. That oldschool gothic lolita hobby märchen chic feel she has is great, and it's actually more subtle than what such characters usually have - it's often quite farcical, I don't usually like it. Of course, the dolls are cute too.

>>17988

Very interesting take on Alice's backstory. Touhou's openness of interpretation is one of its most excellent qualities.
The only other take on her backstory I've read was from Takerfoxx's Imperfect Metamorphosis, which took Akyuu's word as fact that she was a youkai magician. Alice had magician-hood forced upon her by her mother as a gift (which she didn't want) and was a normal human before that. I don't remember all the details because I stopped reading the fic a long time ago, too much EDGE and not enough point.

Bringing up the character's namesake again, what do you 'get' from it? Theres a lot of cultural information contained within it, for lack of a better word. Japanese culture as a whole has a strange fixation upon "Alice in Wonderland" which apparently goes back as far as the last century.

Something that could be extrapolated from the name could be Shinki and Alice's relationship, which we don't really have a lot of official material to go off of.. The author Lewis Carrol was obsessed with the real life Alice, the inspiration for the books, to a... very disturbing extent.

So how could this apply to Alice and Shinki's relationship in fanworks? Is Alice actually Shinki's child/creation or some random kid who 'fell down the rabbit hole'? Is Shinki a overbearing but good mother/stepmother/creator or an obsessed creep (to the point that Alice ran away from Makai to get away from her)?

>>17989
>Touhou's openness of interpretation is one of its most excellent qualities.
Yes, that's the point, isn't it? It works very well as a sandbox.

>Bringing up the character's namesake again, what do you 'get' from it?
It's quite simple, really. In th5, Makai is her Wonderland. In Windows games, Gensokyo is her Wonderland.
Though Makai is more of a Wonderland, I believe it's generally more dreamlike, at least to an outsider. But she is more of an outsider to Gensokyo, even if it's not a proper wonder-land.

>So how could this apply to Alice and Shinki's relationship in fanworks? Is Alice actually Shinki's child/creation or some random kid who 'fell down the rabbit hole'? Is Shinki a overbearing but good mother/stepmother/creator or an obsessed creep (to the point that Alice ran away from Makai to get away from her)?
I do like this idea of obsessive Shinki, it's thematically fitting for the whole Alice allegory. But it doesn't fit my image of her at all, as to me, from her dialogue in th5, she appears to be an extremely careless and lighthearted person. Really, it's the other extreme, I believe.
By the way, I don't have a concrete idea of how exactly Alice left Makai, I'm still considering which option would make my interpretation more coherent...

(I'm pretty sure your picrel is Cookie fanart or something, but still, Alice looks cool with revolvers)

>>17971
>Reimu simply enforces this ideology without ever reflecting on it or questioning it
I wonder about that. Though I'm desperately trying to find the page of it to confirm whether it was in a printwork or fanwork (pretty sure it was WaHH?), I remember seeing it stated that Reimu's actual desire is peace. Also, spoilers for CDS: Were she executing the ideology of Gensokyo and Yukari's orders without question, I think she would've exterminated Mizuchi without much problem.
>Another side of her is that she's essentially to me a youkai who desperately tries to look youkai-like. It's, of course, articles by Aya and Akyuu describing her in what light she needs (and touhou fans buy into it!), but also her general behaviour. I see what >>17523 and >>17525 describe as desire and self-inflicted duty to look mysterious, distant and whimsical, to maintain airs of a youkai sage - even if she feels lonely as a result.
Yukari's character is also interesting and it contrasts well with Ran who is straightforward (depending on whether it gets to her turn in the other thread I might just talk about her here). Yukari shows you only what she wants you to see and how to perceive her, as you and others mentioned, but there is one written work I know of that is from her perspective when she's not "working" and it recontextualizes her character, for the better I think. A Beautiful Flower Blooming Violet Every Sixty Years; it has a lot of her internal monologue and it's Yukari being herself without all of the airs she puts up. Yakumo Yukari the Arch-Youkai Sage of Gensokyo is a character fabricated by Yukari. The mask only comes off when she's with people she absolutely trusts, her best friend Yuyuko and Reimu who she dotes on. This is that side of her laid out bare, this is what she tries to cover up with the cool and mysterious sage appearance.
>>17989
>So how could this apply to Alice and Shinki's relationship in fanworks? Is Alice actually Shinki's child/creation or some random kid who 'fell down the rabbit hole'? Is Shinki a overbearing but good mother/stepmother/creator or an obsessed creep (to the point that Alice ran away from Makai to get away from her)?
I am partial to the fanon that Alice is Shinki's daughter/creation. Could go either way. Were she real flesh and blood, doing something like an immaculate conception plays into some of the Christian religious themes of Shinki and PC-98. Were she a literal creation then you play into the fairy tale side of Alice and draw parallels with Pinocchio. Either way, I think Shinki fits the overbearing mother. To me, Alice feels like Shinki's first "real" creation and everything else is just set dressing to play God to without much care, her relationship with Alice is far more intimate than that of the other Makai denizens. You could start with the doting parent turned obsessive which leads to Alice running away, and certainly there's humor in those stories, but I think Alice left because she had free will and a desire to experience things. Alice wanted to walk on her own feet. To draw on Christian theming once again, Alice left the 'garden', but instead of exile it's because she was ready to fly the nest for better or worse.

Well somebody is posting a translation of the newest CDS chapter on 4chan, thread number --> 49333241 here.
Very Byakren-esq Reimu this chapter but I think Byakuren and Reimu have a lot of similarities anyways.

>>17992
>I wonder about that.
After reading the last chapter of CDS >>17993 - perhaps I'm too biased against her and she at least gave it some thought. What I think about that her understanding is another matter better reserved for when Reimu comes up in the regular discussion. Hopefully I'll have read what printworks I still haven't yet at that point.

>>17992

>>A Beautiful Flower Blooming Violet Every Sixty Years

I can't believe I've never heard of this until now, should be required reading (its canon, too!) Yukari's internal monologue seems borderline depressive, and her spoken dialogue is totally disconnected from it, like two tracks of thought. You could even say, theres a 'gap' between them!

>>everything else is just set dressing to play God to without much care

An interesting take on Makai. A well-ordered wonderland, with power centred aquarely at the top, compared to the relative chaos of Genokyo proper. Perhaps a Makai whose residents are only animate within your sight and otherwise inert, like dolls behind the curtain?

>>18003
>Perhaps a Makai whose residents are only animate within your sight and otherwise inert, like dolls behind the curtain?
That's pretty funny. Though I doubt it's that artificial, even if there's a lot of potential for horror here, creepy-town-with-a-secret-type horror. They're all generally just normal people, even if it's all basically Shinki's (mostly) handmade dollhouse... It's possible to be normal even in such circumstances.

I think the only backstory Alice needs is Jefferson Airplane's "White Rabbit".

>>17991
>By the way, I don't have a concrete idea of how exactly Alice left Makai
My apologies, clearly, it was to work as Mima's maid. (Yes, I know it was just a gag...)

I really liked the Tewi discussion in the first character discussion thread so I wanted to bring her up again. Namely some of her dialogue that I liked
Starting from the top in PoFV, when Lyrica asks if Rabbits used to fly in the sky, Tewi answers that they did but evolved away from that. After winning, when answering why she flies, Tewi says that there wasn’t anywhere else she could go any more so she decided to go up.

When Youmu says it's strange for an animal like her to enjoy the netherworld, Tewi answers that rabbits are high class animals who exchanged a lot with gods in the past.

Finally in her story mode, She then tries to buy part of Medicine’s flower field from her, but gets poisoned instead.

After that Eiki scolds her for being a trickster, leading to her versus dialogue where she dispenses these fortunes.
If Reimu makes the Torii gate of the shrine face south instead of east she will have good luck
If Marisa moved out of the forest of magic she would have good luck
If Yomu stabs herself with her sword, she will have good luck
Tewi tells Cirno to go after frogs of higher rank, getting Cirno eaten by the great toad. This probably isn't a fortune and is just a prank.
Tewi tells Merlin she’s willing to help promote her as a solo act as some sort of business deal.
Tewi advises Mystia to open a new business, causing her to open her lamprey stand.
Tewi talk to Aya about improving how well her papers sell. Later Aya starts handing out free extra additions, it isn't successful due to Aya being dumb and not much happeneing.
Tewi goes back to medicine to ask if she's reconsidered selling some of the land in her field of flower. (Just speculation, but since Medicine and her flowers poison can also be used to create medicine, she probably wants to align her desire to see pretty flowers and secure a new source of resources for the Hourai Pharmacy.)
Tewi scolds Komachi for being wasteful with money and using it as a Danmaku (I find it funny, I've seen more poor Komachi's then rich ones, but in reality she's loaded just poor at handling money.)
When talking to Eiki in the versus mode, she says she’s giving people good advice on her recommendation
Tewi also says she’s giving people advice to be happier, and that happiness means holding deep emotions.

Most of the versus dialogue isn't that interesting, but I did this since after ZUN mentioned Keine's connection to the Lunarians I wanted to check with Tewi's dialogue to see if there was anything missed here. One for thing, Tewi is pretty entrepreneurial and seems to be looking to invest and will go out of her way to give peoples fortunes after the events of PoFV, she only has one instance of pranking Cirno, the same amount of times she scolds someone for being wasteful. I don't understand her line to Reimu, but Marisa's and Sakuya's make sense to me, the Forest of Magic is a pretty shitty place to live and Marisa could live a more comfortable and safe life outside of it. Youmu's dialogue is also odd, since Youmu's swords would probably kill her phantom half was also erasing Youmu's confusion, this seems to be genuine advice, but why Tewi's ability to grant luck would think this is good advice I don't know.
The comment about rabbit evolution made me very curious, as it could hint that Moon Rabbits who can fly naturally, predate the rabbits. Which is interesting as the bombardment that created the current surface of the moon happened 3.9 billion years ago and in Buddhism the craters were painted onto the moon as a reward to the original moon rabbit for its attempted self sacrifice.

Other than that I found an overlooked comment from CiLR, Tewi mentions having seen Ama-no-Iwato Wake-no-Mikoto before after she's done spying on Reimu and Reisen. Which is notable as he descended alongside the heavenly god who would eventually become Lunarians, he’s also the one who came up with the plan to lure amaterasu from the cave.
Touhou Ama-no-Iwato Wake-no-Mikot is a also god of boundaries, which Reimu trains her with abilities by calling on him.

Other than that there's the other dialogue I've seen mentioned a bunch before like her being able to hide Eientei from a Lunarian assassin, and having some plan involving a divine spirit and the Lunarians in Reimu's LoLK ending.

>>17422
In the asshole by nature or choice argument, I think Seija is firmly both. Seija was born as an amanojaku and she is proud of that, embracing her nature wholeheartedly. I think there’s something respectable in that despite how Seija. I guess you could say that born into a weak and hated race of youkai Seija’s response could be from trauma or her just returning the hatred the world showed her, that is if you want Seija to be more sympathetic. But I don’t think Seija would want people to view her sympathetically, but I don’t think her actions or ideology of embracing her nature as an amanojaku is born out of rejecting the world that rejected her.
Rather I think it’s her own form of ‘affection.’ To a youkai the only form of rejection is refusing to believe you exist while Seija fully embraces her role, in a sense I think she’s ironically the most conformist Youkai there is.
She acts and embraces her role exactly as it's supposed to be as an amanojaku. She’s a simple person who doesn’t even realize the irony there.
At the end of the day she’s a small fry trouble maker, helped by the fact she’s resourceful and clever allowing her to acquire items and put herself into positions where she’s a bigger threat then she would normally be. At the end of the day she doesn’t have any real goal other than acting out her role as an amanojaku, even if that seems to be in contradiction to her contrarianism.

>>17436
>>17437
For her grimoire of Usami comment:
>Whoa, THE Ame-no-Sagume?! We're, like, the same race! This party's bearing more fruit than I thought! I really should be sticking with the inchling for the long haul!
I think this does indicate that even if she isn't overly affectionate towards Shimmy, she does kind-of-sort-of hang around her due to finding her interesting.
For Sagume, in canon I don't think they have any true relationship. One way or the other. Sagume is barely even an Amanosaku. Although in the fandom I have seen Sagume conflated with Amanozako in order to make a more solid connection between the two of them, making her a sort of ancestor to Seija. Although I have a hard time finding sources for either so I don't really know what that could mean.

>>17370
You know the conversation in the main thread made me think. I feel like Sanae is actually worse than Reimu in some aspects.
Sanae also supports Gensokyo and two gods who are extorting the trapped human villagers for profit and faith
They're more successful than Reimu, while she worries about food insecurity they seem to eat fine. So she's exploiting the human villagers more.
Sanae comes from the outside world and chooses to throw away its morals. Unlike Reimu she doesn't live in an environment where the status quo of Gensokyo is normalized. So she has no excuse there.
Unlike Reimu or Yukari she didn't help set up the spellcard rules and doesn't return outsiders to the outside world. So she's not actually helping people.
She chose to go to Gensokyo entirely of her own free will.
As she is from the outsider world she knows how good the villagers could have it but doesn't help them.
She's just as much as a scam artist as Reimu.
Neither she or Reimu actually feed humans to Youkai but by supporting Gensokyo they’re guilty by association.
She has no excuses and does all the same bad things Reimu does. Of course she doesn't actually kill someone on screen, but given her track record I feel that's more like a lack of opportunity.
So she knows how good the villagers could have it, but doesn't do anything to help them since it's beneficial to herself, while also having none of the excuses of being raised in Gensokyo like Marisa and Reimu are.

>>18703 (cont.)
Although to comment on some of the discussion from the Sanae thread, namely the repudiation of the Moriya Family trope. While they aren't exactly pseudo parents with Sanae, I don't think she herself is overly loyal to them, nor do I think of their relationship as just business partners.
I think that, at least since Hisotenkou, that there's a degree of equality and care to their relationship, despite them being her gods.
Like in CDS, Sanae calls Suwako and by proxy Kanako out for constantly going behind people's backs and taking unilateral action. As a shrine maiden I think that Sanae naturally has a close relationship to them even if it's not as family, as she channels their power. In Hisotenkou Suwako expresses pride in Sanae for going against her and explains how Kanako is worried about how they always have to lend her power. They don't want Sanae to be reliant on her and like nurturing her independence when they can.
I do think there is some closeness there, of course saying that Sanae is still a servant to them and she still does bug them to cook her meals. Although I don't think that exists in opposition to them having a closer, more familial relationship, parents and children are ideally supposed to support each other and even if they want to support Sanae. There's a sort of tension in the parent child relationship, on one hand the desire for independence and on the other hand your familial duty to your relatives. Although I only really think of this in context with Suwako and Sanae as they are blood family. maybe those two can have a sort of dynamic that Kanako can't be completely let in on, which can create a sort of tension within the Moriya shrine.

I forgot yo post this during Reimu week.
translated: Reimu-san, who will listen to anything she's told, but will also mercilessly exterminate any youkai without questions.

>>18557
To add more onto the Kagerou discussion after the fact, recently I was thinking about the movie "The Gray," you know the one with Liam Neson where he says that wolves kill everything within a 30 mile radius. Not very representative of real wolves but I think it shows a rather contemporary example of where wolves live in the human zestiest and how we expected them to act. If anything Kagerou not being aggressive is even odder due to that
That and how real life wolves work in unison with ravens, and Lunarians use ravens as spy drones, and Lunarians are partly responsible for the creation of were-creatures. It gives me the mental image of Kagerous as a special forces operator working alongside Seiran and Ringo. It's not very Kagerou but I think it is very novel.
Although I have seen her depicted as a lover, or predator of Tewi. Which is at odds of my own perception of Tewi as a shrewd business woman and matriarch of the Inaba, but it is kind of cute. Although over all I'm not very fond of Tewi depictions that have her as only a child and a pet, I like to think of her as someone who has a carefully maintained outward appearance she rarely lets down, due to how she acts in SSiB and CiLR.
Although I think I've gotten distracted from Kagerou, I think a spec-ops Kageoru has potential.

>>17461
To add onto the Aya dicussion from the Aya thread and from Megumu week. I feel like one of Aya's stronger charm points is her racism and politics that contradict with how she acts. Although the particular example is from AFiEU and is also a Kokoro article, I think it highlights her charm.
Aya often has, what I term, "Youkai conservative/reactionary politics," she prefers Youkai to be more antagonistic to humans, looks back fondly on the days when she could commit arson freely, dislikes the spell card rules, and when she thinks Reimu might have died in SSiB she hopes the next shrine maiden is interesting. Her articles, about Reimu in particular, are often inflammatory looking to sow distrust and make Reimu look unreliable when Gensokyo's peace rests on her and she's publicly the inventor of the spell card rules and thus the one who ushered in the new era Aya chaffs against.
Of course it's not like Aya hates humans or anything, but she certainly looks down on them and likes antagonizing them.
In contrast with that she's the most human-like Tengu we know. She even goes to the human village in her newsboy outfit, give positive review to things like KKR48's "Ningyo-yaki In Love," and printed pinup photos of herself in AFiEU. It's pretty cute, although she's not a very stereotypical youkai-like-youkai like Seija, she has similar opinions chaffing against the status quo of peace while being borderline humano-phillic at times with how she imitates outside world humans.

>>17394
This wasn't discussed in the Okina week, but I really like Okina as a sort of shitty mom to Kokoro, Aunn, Narumi, and Cirno. Although I know none of them have that close of a relationship in canon. Anyways, what I mean by shitty is that she's normally disinterested in her pseudo/adoptive-children unless she has use of them, but when they do interact she can be annoyingly smothering.
With her having a messy relationship with Kokoro and Narumi. While Aunn and Cirno mainly just accept her as she is and don't give her any mind when she's not around. Aside from that, I really like how she actually shows some care for Cirno, Sotono, and Mai in HSiFS. Despite how she acts in the fairy manga, she shows concern for Cirno's tanned state, although I don't think its a contradiction. In the fairy manga Cirno wasn't in real threat, unlike HSIFS.
And I do think behind all of that godliness, quirkiness, and how odd she is, she actually does care for them. Although unlike Yukari she doesn't try to hide the fact she cares about people, she's just honest and harsh with the people she cares about so it can be hard to pick up on.
Unfortunately I don't have a good idea of what her relationship would be with her former prince.

Personally, because of that shitty mom aspect, I've always liked to imagine that Aunn and Narumi's 'Mom'(s) are actually their sculptors - and in Aunn's case at least, that sculptor is Misumaru.

(This is also consistent with my desire to treat Chimi and Nareko the same way, as well as Mayumi and Keiki obvs).

There's other people Okina can be a bad mom for, too. Flan's a fun one based on SFW, and it's fun to have her pursuing the same relationship Yukari has with Reimu, only to target Marisa instead, and the various ways you can write that as well.

She very much feels like a character designed to insert herself into any situations she wants.

>>18754
The idea of her as their mom comes from this page of WaHH where she meets Aunn for the first time, asserts some ownership over her, and also seems to care about. Marisa as well, she's pretty happy at the joke Marisa makes at her expense.That and I have this other idea in my head where Okina uses her children as spies, being able to look through the eyes of the Youkai created by her abilities.
Although not that I think about it, their sculptors are more like the mothers, being the one to provide the metaphorical egg in this scenario. While Okina herself is more like their dad, she's the one that 'fertilized' the 'eggs' in question after all. Although she would be Kokoro's mom since she's the one that made the masks...
Enough about what constitutes a mom or dad! Now to break down how I see her relationship with each of her 'children' specifically.
Marisa: She's sort of confused and wary of Okina, not even realizing that Okina's interest in her is pseudo-maternal.
Cirno: Like Marisa, she's more like a perspective child. Fairies mostly don't need looking after so she only checks on her occasionally. Cirno is also kind of confused by Okina, but also gets caught up in whatever Okina's currently doing much more easily. I think alongside Marisa she's the only one here who'd go out of her way to get involved in Okina's business if she heard about it.
Sotono and Mai: Okina probably cares the most about these two, and honoring her promise to them that she'll release them from her service some day. Of course this care also comes with her being the harshest with these two and being the most directly involved in her life.
Narumi: Severely embarrassed by Okina but doesn't dislike her. This only encourages Okina to be more annoying.
Aunn: She just accepts Okina the way she is and mostly gets along, she doesn't really mind smothering affection and she's also fine handling things on her own. Aunn finds her confusing sometimes but this could probably be considered the most normal of Okina's parent-child relationships.
Kokoro: Kokoro is the most independent and already decided her family consists of Miko, Byakure, Reimu, and Mamziou. She mentally excludes Okina and mostly just finds her to be someone annoying that she'd prefer to not rely on.
Flandre: I actually don't have any ideas here, maybe their relationship is the most professional? Flandre while being a battle junkie is more responsible than her sister and tends to get less easily caught up in other people's business and makes less trouble. That said if there's good fighting involved she'd jump to the opportunnity.

I forgot to mention this during Iku Week but I find it interesting that there's a sizable number of Oceanic themes with the Lunar Capital despite the moon's oceans being too pure for sea creatures to live in. I was reading more about Ryuuguunotsukai and a question bugs me: Why do some characters serving the Lunar Capital have an Oceanic theme despite the Moon's oceans being too pure to house actual sea creatures? Even outside of Iku, the Watatsuki's Name and Inspiration is heavily linked to Water. I was going to say that maybe the Moon is an "ocean" and the Lunarians are the "marine / aquatic life" living in it, but then I remembered there's Moon Rabbits living there and also Lunarians (Sagume) with Wings.

So we have Aquatic themed characters living on a Satellite Planet that has oceans incapable of inhabiting aquatic life. Ironic isnt it? Especially when the Dragon Palace is described to be located underwater.

>>18892
Off the top of my head, I think the Watasuki's mother is an ocean goddess and well the moon is an artificial pure land, and Tewi implies rabbits originated from the moon.
So maybe before the Lunarians took over the moon it was habitable and life bearing? With seas full of life. We don't know much about the moon before they came along, but considering that there were rabbits, I don't think it was barren.

>>18893

Now that you mention it, If the Moon used to inhabit life, then that would imply that the Lunar Capital killed the Creatures living in the seas as they contained Impurity. I imagine that the Lunarian Dominated Moon became an "Ocean" where Pure, Supreme Aquatic Animals live wheras Moon Rabbit were unable to live comfortably as their homes have been "Flooded". (On a similar note I have a story which depicts imagery of Lunarians being Aquatic Predators that Eat or Attack Rabbits but I'll save it for the future character in the main discussion thread)

A thought about Remilia comes to mind that might support her having her ability to manipulate fate that she claims to have.

Namely how despite how a few characters involved in incidents being new to gensokyo or just running into the characters from gensokyo going to the other realms that are connected to gensomyo but not in contact. (See former hell, animal hell, the moon heck Sumireiko counts too!) That the fights still manage to be fought under spellcard rules. Which makes Remilia's part with the formation of the spellcard system interesting. Perhaps she isn't just spouting off some false boastto make herself look more powerful, but has been using her power to manipulate fate to ensure that incidents of gensokyo are resolved using the spellcard system? Even when the incident causers didn't know about it before or other similar things?

>>18917
At this point you're just using Remilia as a convenient handwave. You can swap her to any sufficiently powerful and vague person or ability - Yukari/Okina/Keine/Dragon God/lunarians/myriad gods/secret outside world government are somehow ontologically upholding spellcard system with their vague but totally very powerful abilities - and nothing will change in your logic.
>That the fights still manage to be fought under spellcard rules.
We don't have any in-universe evidence that that's the case, do we? I personally think it's simply a game-mechanical convention and in-universe at least in the LoLK and WBaWC incidents danmaku rules weren't used. Anyway, even if somebody will present evidence to the contrary - your theory immediately runs into the classic brick wall of such theories - "why is [she] doing only this with that vague basically omnipotent ability of hers and not that?"

>>18918

Execpt that Remilia is one of the few involved with the formation of the spellcard system. Leaving it between her, Reimu or Yukari. But there may be a little point that it could be a handwave.

LoLK won't really count since we do know for sure the moon was introduced to the spellcard system during the events of SSiB years before so we know that they did have spellcards.

Furthermore we know it isn't just game convention as not only do they have the whole spellcircle spellcard start up and the same naming convention for both LoLK and WBaWC, but many of those same spellcards showed up for Reimu's spellcard competition in Grimoire of Usami. (Though i think that was before WBaWC... But many of those spellcards also showed for UDoALG which were going on the spellcard system.)

I was going to talk during Mokou week bu something came up so it's going here.

there's something to be said about the fact If it weren't for Mokou's spite towards Kaguya, she wouldn't lived to know what being part of Human society feels like and she wouldn't know what the feeling of companionship is like. To the Fujiwara Clan, Mokou was seen as the result of an unwanted Pregnancy but to Gensokyo, she's a resident. For once She could actually associate herself with a place and its people without it coming off as parasocial.

>I don’t think either Mokou or Kaguya would hurt others to get one over the other. It isn’t that kind of hate.

I think Mokou stopped hating Kaguya after coming to the Realization that she actually did her more good than harm despite Immortality being something she was possessed to desire (By Sakuyahime) but I see them as more Frienemies than true Rivals. The kind of friends where neither feel truly offended when they call each other spiteful names. Brawling together nowadays is their hobby. Also

>Was she already proficient in fire magic before then or did she learn it specifically for the phoenix theme?

I see Mokou learning Pyromancy as a way to Symbolize her burning the Bridges between her and her past, whether it be no longer wanting anything to do with a family that never saw her as family or to burn away the mortal, younger Mokou. Additionally Phoenixes universally symbolize Rebirth and Ressurrection.

(Squeezing in something I wouldve said for Eiki week but didn't get to. She reminds me of those teachers who you thought was mean and abrasive but are actually very polite and patient. That's the most I have to say about her but it's mostly Mokou I have stuff to say about.)

>>19180
>To the Fujiwara Clan, Mokou was seen as the result of an unwanted Pregnancy
My first instinct is to scream "source?" but even as interpretation, unwanted pregnancies aren't really a thing for high aristocracy (when legal of course). Daughters are a political resource after all, and they aren't exactly pressed on resources to sustain them.

>Phoenixes universally symbolize
I'm afraid phoenixes do not universally symbolize anything as they're Greek mythological creatures. It's a question in fact how and when Mokou even learned about existence of those フェニックス, as it's in her spellcards.

Also could you please adhere more to normal orthography, particularly in regards to capitalization?

>>19181
Yukari maybe? She is based on a half-greek, half-irish person.

>unwanted pregnancies aren't really a thing for high aristocracy
The reason why I thought that was because while reading about Mokou, I learned that she was considered an unwanted child. I didn't get the time to read about Aristocratic families so pardon me for that misconception (even if it's just interpretation)

>I'm afraid phoenixes do not universally symbolize anything as they're Greek mythological creatures

Even If that's the case there's plenty media that depicts them as symbols of rebirth; with my view on Mokou I thought it'd be the reason why She has Phoenixes in her design / spellcards but it was my mistake for using the term "Universally".

>please adhere more to normal orthography, particularly in regards to capitalization

Will do.

>humanist thought and a humancentric perspective on the world that rejects the supernatural is superstitious and ignorant in the outside world.

Maybe its because I got a slightly different outlook on my take on Reisen now than a month ago so think of this as like an updated, less convoluted version of >19063):
Reisen is someone who wants to become a superior version of herself after spending years thinking of herself as superior to others; The reason has to do with how Reisen perceives the world and how others perceive her. Even when she's vocal about how much she's trying to improve on herself, people would still look at her the same before she said that: An annoying, lunatic moon rabbit, only respectable to outsiders when her identity is concealed (I believe the reason why Reisen conceals her identity is because people assume inflammatory things about her vibes as seen in Inaba 4koma ch10). I think Reisen would develop a hatred towards Humanism because of how to her comes off as anything that either can't be easily understood by or isn't human is inherently a bad thing. The word "Humanity" is often used synonymously with Empathy and Compassion and Reisen, who isn't human, feels as if she's automatically perceived as dangerous to humans even when she isn't battle hungry. From Reisen's point of view, Humanism is indifferent from Puritanism: Rejecting what isn't acceptable by Humanity's standards. Reisen doesn't accept impurity, but doesn't seem to be puritanical either, but there's this side to her that fears what would happen to her if she remains impure for a long time and that would stress her out to an obsessive degree. Reisen reaches a point where she believes that all her pain could be alleviated if she became a tool with no psychological pain or emotions, only a desire to carry out whatever job she's told to complete.

>>19180
I really doubt Mokou was a unwanted child. I think it's more fair to say her upbringing was just generally rather lax and cold (As was typical back then). Her effort to avenge her dad very much feels like somebody wanting to get closer to somebody that is emotionally distant.

Granted, her being a bastard is very much a possibility (And yes, unwanted pregnancies were a thing for the nobility. Though typically only for the male members). It's just one I somewhat doubt.

Otherwise, the main thing I'll say about Mokou is that the story is rather confused about how close she actually is to the humans of Gensokyo. She was originally a close friend of Keine, but Keine, or at least her face, was like Alice a casualty of the Great Fairy war. Nowadays her two closest friends are Sumireko and Futo, who are both outsiders with no real relation to anybody in Gensokyo.

>>19340
>大昔、まだ不老不死ではなかった頃、彼女は貴族の父を持つ娘だった。ただその存在は隠されており、余り望まれた子では無かったようである。

>Long ago, before she became immortal, she was the daughter of an aristocrat. She wasn't allowed to go out in public, so it seems that she wasn't a wanted child.
https://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Fujiwara_no_Mokou#Official_Profiles

>>19341
Hmmm, fair enough. I stand corrected.

>>19201
I feel like after reading this wall of text the point of view that says "dude she's a rabbit, just chill okay" is a really cool one and exactly the argument you'd use to cheer her up if she got hit by all that stuff in your post

>>19343
Then again, you're supposed to graze bullets, not get hit by them.

>>19343
That's more or less how I view Tewi and Eirin's perspective on the whole matter

.

A little while ago on the Discord a couple people, including myself, did a Touhou sorting and I thought explaining which characters you like and dislike, and why could be a pretty interesting subject for the thread.

The sorter for anyone interested: https://tohosort.frelia.my/

Anyways, if you want to see the full list it's picrel, and my top 10 in order are: Yuugi, Tewi, Seija, Cirno, Mamizou, Shou, Marisa, Sekibanki, Shimy, and Tsukasa. With Koishi being the 11th place.
I was told, some what in gest that my preference for 2hus meant that I–
>Either you are into Woman who can fuck you up or into Woman who can fuck you over, or both.
While I know that's a joke, I wanted to explain why I like certain characters so much. I'm a big fan of naturalism in works, i.e scientific observation, social commentary, the indifference of nature, and characters grappling against the nature they were born with and the society which fosters or rejects that nature. In addition to this, I, in a more broad sense, like characters who have baked in conflicts, but at the same time if those conflicts begin to overshadow the character themselves I begin to lose interest.
That and my liking of characters largely correlates with how interesting I think they'd be to like, except for Yuugi who holds the number 1 spot due to also being my Waifu.
Anyways, explaining that I think my top 10 makes a lot of sense, but I'll go more into the detail with the top 5.

Yuugi, among the big 4, is the only Oni by birth with Kasen and Suika both having mythological backstories as former humans. She was left holding the bag as an authorit figure for them while Kasen plays hermit and denies her existence as an Oni, and Suika fucks around on surface. In contrast, Yuugi is employed, and although very Oni-like, also seems very reasonable and personable in her appearances. She probably has some resentment for her sisters but in turn would understand they have their reason and as seen in CDS is fine with being wrapped up in events. She also has big tits.

Tewi I feel like can be an understated character, relegated to a joke since she appeared in the in-universe Inaba manga Kaguya wrote with her later appearances sort of ignored since there's a lot of vague posting in them. But I really do feel like she has some depth to her. She's the matriarch of the Inaba clan and brokered the deal with Eientei in exchange for medical knowledge, she has some grudge against the Lunarians probably because of Daikoku. She hints a lot to other characters that she has other things going on but she doesn't get them involved, preferring to do things herself while also doing her normal responsibilities. I view her actions as a more measured response in comparison to Junko or Heca, she has her problems with the Lunarians but she doesn't get other people involved, and her efforts are probably more centered around freeing Daikoku, like what happened with Ariya, rather than getting revenge. That and she's a weaker character, I feel like drama is easier to create when a character doesn't have an overwhelming ability.

Seija is a lot more obvious character who whole heartily embraces her shitty nature and by that same nature seeks out conflict. She's rotten to the core and crafty, but at the same time I think she's skilled enough socially to manipulate people even if they know her history.

Cirno is also pretty obvious given my stated preferences. She's the only 2hu who's ever really had an arc, I also feel like she's one of the easier protagonists to choose if you want to write an Underdog.

Mamizou is probably a bit strange among the others given that she is someone who I view as extremely at home in her nature, she's a Tanuki-like-Tanuki after all. Rather I think that's part of her appeal in contrast, a creature extremely at home in her nature like Mamizou is a near ideal villain or mentor for someone struggling with their own nature. There's also the fact that I find her just behind Yuugi in attractiveness, although she has a different type of erotic appeal. But hers is definitely the least justified of these placement, the most I can only really describe as 'vibes'.

Looking back on the list and my reasoning, there's also a theme of me favouring characters I think of as mature, like Yuugi, Tewi, Mamziou. Anyways, I'd love to see other people posting their lists and explaining them!

>>19431

I have made a similar sorter several months ago since we are sharing those.

For Reisen, If you read the 4th discussions, I was the most active in those discussions. Heck, I was initially supposed to have only one post to kickstart the discussion but apparently I had too much to say about her that I split it into 2. She's a character I think about a lot because she's practically everything I love in a character: Black Suit, Red Eyes, Purple, Sadistic Pos with Anxiety, Versatile ability, Firearms. There was a lot I said about her and more I could've said, but it'd only make sense in a Touhou Story I'm working on which is basically related to another reason why Yuiman is high on the sorter. Before I get to Yuiman I'll give you a quick rundown on the story:

Its about Yuiman thinking the world is going to end because of a conspiracy theory going around Gensokyo that a Triangular shaped Ship will come and destroy the earth and not being in the right state of mind to truly discern what's real and fake and just accepted this. The reality was that the conspiracy was actually Nina overhearing Reisen talk to herself (by a coast that was recently added to Gensokyo) about a Dream she had about meeting a girl who owned a massive spaceship big enough to destroy planets and stars and wondered if she was also going to destroy her world too. Nina misinterpreted that as the Truth and warned everyone about it. Additionally, Gensokyo in this story has grown in size and population. Nina states that because it has become so large, the ship will have a more fun time destroying it.

As for Yuiman generally love the concept of a character whose ability was exploited to the point they could no longer differentiate what's real and fake and for Nina, she interprets anything as the "Truth" but has no real world experience or education to truly discern what's real and fake.

I'm tired as of me typing this so maybe I'll explain more later? But yeah thats my list.

>>19470
I forgot to say this, but I've actually seen a headcanon regard Sakuya's relationship to Iwanaga similar to one I've seen about Kaguya; being that both Kaguya and Sakuya are made from the DNA, or some equivalent of Iwanaga Ariya and Konohanasakuya-hime. Both of them trying to prevent and cause change.
It's a bit funny to imagine them as sisters in that respect, both being the results of Lunarian science. One successful, while the younger was a failure who was thrown away as a failure after not living up to her big sisters example once Kaguya left the moon. Sort of similar to Reisen and Akyuu's relationship in R/R Leading to Sakuya falling into the hands of Remi eventually.
No idea how'd I'd use it in a story, but I think it's neat. Even the Sakuya being a clone of the sisters on it's own is a bit cool to me, samething for Kaguya being an Iwanaga clone.

Ah, Reimu, talking about Marisa always reminds me of Reimu. Playing the intro to the new Touhou: Nocturne demo also made me think of Reimu, namely because of picrel! Four origins for Reimu, all of which disappear.
Nobility and Seeker are rather standard Reimu origins with the exception of Nobility being brought up affluent.
Apprentice has some nice Kosuzu parallels, but what I really like here is Sinner. A Sinner by birth, the product of a union between youkai and human and raised by the previous Hakurei as a method of sparing her. I find the idea of:
>Since the Hakurei Shrine maiden is by definition a human, being the Hakurei Shrine Maiden washes away the sin of your birth.
>Although it will never be something you are forgiven for.
Because of this, Reimu wasn't killed as a child. But to her adoptive mother's despair, she proved too adept at being a Shrine Maiden for Yukarri to let her go.
Of course this also plays into my favoritism for the Hakurei Shrine maiden itself being important but the individual Hakurei like Reimu being disposable. But even for the other origins, the idea of Reimu having a semi-estranged family she's on good terms with is something I like, although it's a bit similar to Marisa... Well this probably all has some specific meaning in the game, even Reimu's origin glitching out. Well that plays into another idea I like, Keine, as a servant of Gensokyo consumes the history of the previous Hakurei to help maintain the illusion of their invincibility.

>>19557
>Basically: They can't get anything new from her because she can't tell them anything they don't already know. Which implies their average knowledge is already pretty high.
Or their level of knowledge is low and Sanae, a bigger traitor to humanity than Reimu, doesn't care about them. Faith is for the transient people after all. To her mortals are primarily a resource to be exploited.
It's almost as if I invited you to talk about traitor to humanity Sanae a while ago but you never responded because you only want to talk about Reimu and Yukari.
Seriously there's not enough villainous characterization for Sanae, I feel like she's rather neglected on that front. Although I'll be the first to admit I'm being hypocritical here since I haven't written an evil Sanae, mermaid murdering Cirno, or human-eating Tewi like I often complain about.

>human-eating Tewi.
Ive seen multiple interpretations of Tewi been an asshole but this is the first I've heard of Human eater Tewi.

>>19560
That's exactly my point, the Inaba seem fairly sizable so if youkai eat humans they'd probably consume a lot of meat. But I rarely see Tewi involved in Grimsokyo.
Probably because of Reisen getting her to join the Rabbit Horn League, Tewi being a rabbit, and her calling humans gluttonous creatures leading to a lot of vegetarian Tewi's.

>>19559
>Seriously there's not enough villainous characterization for Sanae,

Sounds like a you problem.

>>19562
It's not just my problem, it represents a systematic injustice in touhou writing spaces and shows just how conservative people are with characterization. I like Grimsokoyo but it feels like it's always
>Reimu, Mairsa, Yukari
Maybe sometimes Mamziou, but it feels stuck in the fandom of decade past.
Tewi should be included in Gromsokyo human eating as well, it's unfair and just as founded in canon as is her making pit traps. People are just overly conservative with her as a character, people should allow Tewi to be a real monster.
Where's the Sanae who only sees humans as resources to be exploited?
Where is the bloodthirsty Cirno who decimated the mermaid population of misty lake?

>>19563
Tewi is based on the hare of inaba. she isn't exactly famous for eating Youkai.

>Maybe sometimes Mamziou,
SDM is pretty famous for lending themselves to a lot of grimdark takes as well. Okina probably would as well if anybody cared about them.

>Where's the Sanae who only sees humans as resources to be exploited?
Part of the problem with that is that Sanae is generally defined as having been a fairly normal girl in the outside world. Her to just suddenly go mad with power seems... odd. Not impossible to do, but it requires far more effort than Yukari or Reimu. who can easily just be written as just being inherently sociopaths without any issue.

>Where is the bloodthirsty Cirno who decimated the mermaid population of misty lake?
Fairies being edgy would be less them just doing violence and more them just genuinly not understanding humans. Like them befriending a human kid and convincing them that lighting their parents on fire is a hillarious prank.

>>19584
*she isn't exactly famous for eating humans.

why are her arms so small

Satori and Keine always surprise me with how popular they are, considering they're only important to one game each with a more minor role in the story.

Not sure how hot of a take this is, but I also like heartfelt fancy more than Satori maiden.

>>19586 Satori is interesting because her power is strong, but she herself isn't physically (well, for a youkai). That vulnerability is good for being set up as a main/major character. You can make interesting scenarios with that: ones where she has to use her wit over something with greater strength (kinda the same appeal fights in jjba work with). Her personality being one of bluntness and snark is also a place to explore. You could explore what she hides behind that facade or what it would take for her to break the act. She's also naturally going to be popular by proxy to her sister.

>why are her arms so small
maybe her sleeves are larger than they look and she's just hiding her arms there

Oh yeah, another Ran headcanon I like. I imagine Ran was the previous head of the Keiga before Saki. Aside from the minor fact they were in the animal realm when the other wasn't I just really like the idea of Ran being a matriarch and the Keiga having a type. That is, the Keiga like violent guileless people, which is how I imagine Ran's past self, but unlike Saki she didn't like the fact she was violent or that she enjoyed violence.
She came to despise herself, her birth as a fox, and beastliness in general since she couldn't succeed at being a guileful fox and being a beast kept her trapped in the animal realm after death. Then Yukari came along with an offer to free her by becoming her Shiki.

>>19584
>Tewi being the hare on Inaba
Yeah, but Tewi being the White hare of Inaba, has never been explicitly confirmed and if you're gonna make youkai literally eat human meat why not go all the way? From what we see the Inaba are the largest and most well organized animals in Gensokyo, if there's a rabbit youkai the default assumption is that it's an Inaba since all earth rabbits by the logic of Gensokyo, are known quantities to Tewi. being so large and with Tewi actively expanding their number in WaHH, they must consume a lot of meat.
It's unfair is what I'm saying, certain characters are typecasted way too hard by the fandom and I feel like people should feel more open to explore alternative characterizations, even just casually.

>who can easily just be written as just being inherently sociopaths without any issue.
Nice to talk to you again Milo, but I don't see how Sanae is any harder to write like that, her theme song is about how she doesn't need faith and it exists for mortals only. Besides that she literally abandoned her humanity to become more god-like, and gave herself angel wings in one of her newest appearances. She's a person who values her own personal power above the lives of other people, probably even more than the gods she serves given how blatantly self aggrandizing she is even when talking with them in private.
I can easily imagine a casually cruel Sanae being a background character in the story, like how in a youkai/human romance an overly driven-at-her job Reimu would be an enemy.

>Fairies being edgy would be less them just doing violence and more them just genuinely not understanding humans. Like them befriending a human kid and convincing them that lighting their parents on fire is a hilarious prank.
The headcanon is based on the fact that Cirno talks about eating big fish from the Misty Lake, these big fish are specified to be mermaids in other print works. Now this is 100% an error, but I like Cirno being too childish and bloodthirsty to understand that mermaids are people and not food. But for that specific prank you mentioned I think Star "unibomber" Sapphire is a better fit.

>>19586
What >>19589 said, that and she's Koishi's sister, and a mind reader who can hypnotize people. Those last two facts are practically a fetish buffet btw. Satori is hot, and I say this as someone who thinks she has a shitty annoying personality. I also like to imagine she's the flat+short to Koishi's tall+busty.
Heck the lewd pink is already sicky to Koishi's sporty!!!

>>19593
>Yeah, but Tewi being the White hare of Inaba, has never been explicitly confirmed
1: Come on... You might as well argue Suika has never been explicitly confirmed to be Shuten Douji. 2: The idea that ALL youkai eat humans is already a complete violation of canon so I don't know why that's even relevant.

>has never been explicitly confirmed and if you're gonna make youkai literally eat human meat why not go all the way?
It's very annoying flanderization that makes the setting worse and less intresting.
>Some Youkai eat humans.
>So, ALL Youkai eat humans.
Frankly, even if you want to go full Grimdark: There are far worse things than death.

>they must consume a lot of meat.
Not really. Even assuming they do eat humans, that doesn't mean they have to eat humans. Most likely they would just devour anybody who wanders into Eintei when Kaguya isn't paying attention.

>but I don't see how Sanae is any harder to write like that
It stretches credibility. Like I said, she was a normal girl in the outside world. Writing her to secretly always be green haired Dio Brando isn't impossible but it's hard to pull off unless you can make her come across as genuinly charismatic. It's also complete canon rape that downright contradicts whatever characterization she does get, but as we talked about in the past that's not inherently bad.

>I can easily imagine a casually cruel Sanae being a background character in the story,
Well, part of the issue is that even at her worst gods are still MOSTLY benevolent.

>like how in a youkai/human romance an overly driven-at-her job Reimu would be an enemy.
I honestly feel Reimu would just let Yukari or a local village figure take care of that. She's the SS, not the Gestapo.

>but I like Cirno being too childish and bloodthirsty to understand that mermaids are people and not food.
I mean... mermaids are still Youkai.

> But for that specific prank you mentioned I think Star "unibomber" Sapphire is a better fit.
To be sure, if you want to Grimdark up Cirno I could see it mostly insofar that as much as she is a meme she is way stronger than a normal human. Imagine her playfully getting into a fight with a little kid, only to instantly impale him FF8 style.

>>19594
Thanks for the quick reply Milo. My point is kind of that I do want to see people go all the way, but I don't see why in a Grimsokyo they'd have to hide eating humans from Kaguya, CiLR renegade makes clear the Inaba and Tewi actually have a lot of negotiating power. Besides I think an inhumane Kaguya who doesn't mind the rabbits eating people is interesting. She's love the impurity of the earth but love all of it, including the suffering.
Just have the Moriya Shrine be running a protection racket then. Suwako is already a curse god and they can cast Kanako as entirely self-serving. Besides for Sanae I feel like she has an interesting place among the cast as she chose to live her life as the servant of Kanako and Suwako. She left behind her old life willingly, I suppose she shares that with Marisa but while I see Marisa as moth-like, fatally attracted to magic, Sanae only gained power without any risk by coming to Gensokyo. I think it could be easy to cast that as an entirely self-serving choice. Although I wouldn't want to write her as a Dio-like, I think Yoshikage Kira is closer as he believes in his own luck while Sanae has her whole "MIRACLE!" thing. Besides that I don't really see her as the masterminding sort like Dio is.
But honestly if I wanted to have a character be an antagonist in a human/youkai romance story, I think I'd pick Reimu or Keine over Yukari or Ran. Yukari feels more determined and I think has enough power and oversight where she'd kind of just steamroll the story and I'd probably want to use her like she's used in FS, or only give her a minor role.
While I feel like Reimu would be easier to make more conflict ith, especially if I used the half-human backstory from the Nocturne game which I probably would. Something like the issue stressing her out since she doesn't want to kill anyone involved, but she doesn't want them to repeat the same sin that led to her birth. While Keine is a half-youkai, a village character, someone determined to keep the balance, more diligent that Reimu, and
I think it's a really dramatic and cool idea. Reimu is internally torn up, and there's sort of doomed love between the MC and the youkai of your choice. Although I'm a bit busy with other things to getting around to writing that story. Basically FS but with romance.

>>19595
>My point is kind of that I do want to see people go all the way
I would say it's less about going all the way and more about it becoming kind of cartoonish after a while to the point it's meaningless. People remember stories like 1984 because there is a sense of believability. Also like I said, I just hate flanderization.

A grimdark Gensokyo to me is one where the human cost of maintaining Gensokyo is shown. Where the human village is a real place of real people genuinly suffering because of the existence of fantasy.

>Sanae only gained power without any risk by coming to Gensokyo
She actually already had powers in the outside world.

> Besides that I don't really see her as the masterminding sort like Dio is.
I'm thinking more of Phantom Blood Dio rather than the diabolic mastermind we see in Stardust Crusader.

>But honestly if I wanted to have a character be an antagonist in a human/youkai romance story, I think I'd pick Reimu or Keine over Yukari or Ran.
I would honestly avoid just having one clear villain in favor of society itself. The issue is the nature of Gensokyo, the actual input of individuals is meaningless. Your lives do not matter, the lives of others do not matter, only the system and maintaining the system does.

>>19597
Cartoonish can be good imo.
Reimu's role wouldn't really be that of a villain, she'd be an antagonist. Besides even if the villain is society itself in a sort of vague sense there are still people who upkeep the system, and while I'm interested in giving people dramatic motivations I'm not really interested in excusing their actions. Society is made up of individuals. Besides I think the message being:
>Your lives do not matter, the lives of others do not matter, only the system and maintaining the system does.
Is kind of bleak in a way I wouldn't want to write. It's a romance, not a tragedy. It's more about the sacrifices people make for love and how a relationship has to be built on mutual respect and effort.
Like I'd 100% go for something along those lines, with Reimu being a conflicted antagonistic force. In this hypothetical story she is a half-youkai girl who was forced into the position of the Hakurei because it was an allowed way of not killing her in a society that condemned her to death. Mind you one of the ways of defeating her would be finding a way to successfully disseminate the truth, destabilizing Gensokyo as people lose their faith in the Hakurei and Reimu has to be removed from her position with the MC and his love interest escaping in the chaos.
In that way it's a selfish story more about personal happiness, society is a villain, which could hurt the MC and which Reimu and her parents were a victim of. But the story isn't about fighting society as a whole, it's about finding your place in it where you can live comfortably. Maybe even leaving the society you were born into, or changing yourself or the one you love for the sake of society. Change happens no matter what, but it would be incremental and negotiated.
Besides I do want a central antagonist. It's just something I find really compelling.

to add to my post in >>19583. (urgh, took forever to get it together to post this...) something I note about Marisa... she's lived amongst youkai far longer than she's lived amongst humans, even by TH6 it was probably about even (especially when you factor out infancy which she wouldn't remember.) and a chunk of that with youkai in pre-spellcard gensokyo

>>19547

this idea's a bit interesting to look at as while Reimu's close contact with Youkai was something she was practically born with as a Hakurei Shrine maiden. Marisa's on the other hand chose to do so practically from the get go. giving up prosperity to live with Youkai. so you'd think that Marisa would be the closer of the two to on the youkai-like human thing.

and the whole visiting Reimu after being defeated thing that most of the youkai do was started by Marisa in the first place! (I can imagine it just slipping from Marisa either during or in the immediate aftermath of the scarlet mist incident, which lead to Remilia doing it and it just taking off from there.

though she has been offered the chance to youkai or immortality at a couple of points and hasn't taken it... though I wonder if its because she doesn't want to turn youkai... or if there's a specific one she's aiming for that gaining immortality might make difficult. Namely the same thing as her mentor whose house she is still living in: a vengeful spirit. and thanks to a certain fortune teller… we know the process can be forced.

But before someone says “then Reimu would go to kill her if she does… a couple of important differences between the Marisa and the fortune teller which I think will have it be very different,

Marisa isn’t a human of the village, and hasn’t been the grand majority of her life already by this point, much less in the indeterminate amount of time from now before this would kick off.
The probably target(s) this would all be youkai*
Said targets aren’t quite reimu’s friend… or at least ones she would admit to

And how would she accomplish it? Well… pretty easily, she’s already set it up after all.

“I’ll return them when I am dead!” or something along those lines, yes?

So after a long mortal life, some (hopefully.) distant point in the future, Marisa passes away and all those that she’s swiped from (most likely swiped magical grimoires from particularly.) go and retrieve the books she took. The ones that have been hers for years, decades even. Ones that she swear fought and sometimes bled for.

How Dare They

And up comes a vengeful Marisa to get “her” books back.

And well… she had so many it would probably be hard even for a ghost to recall immediately all of the many books that were “hers” so dealing with her grudge might take… awhile. Which give plenty of time to work on more magic!

Granted even possessing youkai (likely in this scenario Patchy, again ) has its own problems as Mizuchi so happily demonstrated. But it wouldn’t be as bad as with the fortune teller.

Personally I don't imagine Marisa to be that worshipful of Mima, especially after the events of PC98. That and I imagine Mima being a vengful spirit to actually be a failure since she never became a witch in life. This also plays into my Marisa, Mima, Mizuchi, Renko headcanon about them being more or less sort of fated people who emerge along a guardian of balance. Marisa has enough wisdom, or good sense, to not want to become a youkai and she has a higher chance of surpassing her predecessors, at least in the not-getting-betrayed-and-killed category.
But I do like your idea of the Marisa Incident, where at the end of her life she pulls a Fortune Teller/Mizuchi for old time sake.
Seems fun.

>>19606
>something I note about Marisa... she's lived amongst youkai far longer than she's lived amongst humans
Funny thing is: We don't know that.

Assuming she's 26 (Already a big assumption) she must have left her old life in the Human village when she was 13 to have spend more time with Youkai. It's perfectly possible she left the human village when she was sixteen (Assuming no Mima, that's likely even).

>>19608

I'll respond to the rest tomorrow as its past 10 for me here (mostly with stuff from Rinnosuke and Enoko referring to Marisa as a "little girl" when she ran away iirc.) but...

>Assuming she's 26 (Already a big assumption)

uh... not to hit you with that Sanae meme, but you recall that big hubbub regarding Akyuu a couple of years back?

about how she was now 30?

and Akyuu is younger than Reimu and Marisa?

most of the games have this assumption of the events happening around the same year they were released in... and that would make Akyuu 2 when both HRtP and SoEW (TH1&2) were released, meaning that Reimu and Marisa were old enough to adventure by that point...

uh yeah, 26 is a big assumption... on the low end. if we're ignoring ZUN about ignoring their age... Marisa is in her late 30s... at least

>>19611
Well he did call it a big assumption.

>>19607
while I could maybe see some argument for that in the windows era (thogugh also arguments against it.) but for the PC98 era, especially when you do factor in the Win era.

Marisa speaks to everyone in a very casual manner both pc98 and win Era... with one exception:

Lady Mima (or rather Mima-Sama) which is all the more noticeable since this is japanese media, where that tone has a much more important impact of the meaning of who it is addressed to.

furthermore someone pointed out in the main character discussion thread, as well as the discord, but Marisa is apparently still living in Mima's house according to one of the music CDs (and/or possibly her mother's house by some people's theories.) even into the win era.

>That and I imagine Mima being a vengful spirit to actually be a failure since she never became a witch in life.

funny, I recall as doujin that runs on that idea, except that it doesn't factor in pc98 at all and so its not Mima that was Marisa's teacher, but a powerless living human in the forest. (Reimu even spares her after confronting her becuase she's a regular human. (though since I'm pretty sure Marisa largely if not near complete fuels her magic with those magic mushrooms since she's still a regular human what's the difference?)

...but (I mean granted you said headcanon so your story sounds interesting.) I don't really see that for Mima, miss, "how about I become the Hakurei Goddess" unless she's an incredibly old vengeful spirit how'd she go from no magical skill whatsoever to final boss level only after dying I'm don't think that makes sense?

>>19608

adding onto my post about Akyuu's age, while I didn't find what I was looking for with Rinnosuke, Enoko definitely calls Marisa "That crying little girl..."

and actually looks around for information the last couple of days, I came across Mima's TH5 ending, where she thinks that Reimu is well on her way towards becoming a god... that might be a reason too for Marisa to go the vengeful spirit route, to make sure she can still help Reimu past that point, though undermined by why she would turn down the other options for immortality.

And

Marisa's profile in TH5 says that she is "still a child"

so I wouldn't put that as high as 13, much less 16! my guess would be single digits when she ran away from the human village. (which ties into the theory I had in my Marisa post in the main discussion regarding her height: namely that she's that short because of malnutrition thanks to pretty much everyone around her not needing, and thus not caring about food, much less nutrition when she very much needed to.

>>19611
Touhou runs on comic book time. I don't buy Marisa being in her late 30's, frankly. Same for Reimu. If anything, in the case of Reimu it raises a lot of questions (Like why she isn't raising the next generation of Hakurei shrine maidens). Like I said as well, it is a big assumption one way or another.

>>19613
Her running away when she was, like, 8 is vaguely plausible but it does raise a lot of questions. Especially considering what we now know about her backstory. I also just REALLY doubt she could have survived on her own when she was that young.

>>19613
I think that's how Marisa used to be, then she gained a more realistic view of Mima, not as clouded by one-sided affection.
But I think you mean the Zounose Doujin Odd/Old Witch? I suppose it's sort of similar but I was more of a difference between dedicated Witches who can transcend their humanity, and mere magic users like Mima was in her life. Mima was a mere spellcaster, strong but in a not very scientific, dedicated research sort of way. With Marisa being closer to a true witch than Mima was with her Minihakkero, and sort of tech-y magic inspired by what Rinnosuke made.
Paraphrasing from Prequel, the webcomic that planted the idea in my head years ago:
>"It's like… to someone who only knows how to dig with a spoon, the notion of digging something as large as a trench will terrify them. All they know are spoons, so as far as they're concerned, digging is simply difficult. The only way they can imagine it getting any easier is if they change – digging with a spoon until they get stronger, faster, and tougher. And the dangerous people, they'll actually try this."
>"If we have trouble digging with a spoon, we build a shovel. If we’re stopped by a wall, we make a door. And if we can’t make a door, we ask ourselves whether we really need an opening to pass through something solid in the first place."
Both are dangerous for different reasons, a mere spellcaster will keep applying spoons until the problem solves itself while a true witch would pull out some bullshit and build a shove. I think the dynamic is sort of interesting because despite seeming like a type 1 spoon-maxxer, Marisa is all about stealing and copying other people's tricks. Even the mini-hakkero was made by Rinnosuke and its signature Master Spark was something Marisa copied off Yuuka.
In my mind the criteria for becoming a witch is systematically removing the parts of yourself which define you as human, namely the three worms/corpses from Daoism:
>Aging
>Hunger
>Physical desire
Which together govern the qualities that determine if something is alive: movement, respiration, eating, response to stimuli, growth, excretion, and reproduction. With the need for these things being replaced by the need for magic. So as long as they have access to enough magic, they don't age, hunger, grow, wither, and can choose which physical sensations and desires they want to feel. It's a bit like being a hermit but instead of overcoming these things you replace it all with magic bullshit.
Of course as a side effect the physical body of the magician breaks down, meaning unless your a Magician who specializes in magic relating to the body, like Byakuren, you'll grow weak.
It's something I saw in a doujin I can't remember the name of.
I see Mima as someone who was even more infatuated with youkai and youkai-ness, but that very quality prevented her from stepping back and taking the perspective needed by a aspirant witch. Although I'd hesitate to even call it a story, it's just a headcanon, cool ideas, OCs, and lore a story does not make.

>>19614

my guess would be Rinnosuke being juuuust powerful enough to keep the small fry from looking at her too close, and her being too much of a small fry to interest the bigger ones, magicians not really caring for fear of humans as much as other youkai do, and Mima quickly seeing her potential and giving Marisa what she gave up human contact for: magic.

that and so marisa's main issue would be food, and not poisonous stuff... though iirc she pulled a dread pirate roberts and made herself immune to the poisonous mushrooms of the forest of magic... so that probably somehow made it into her diet even early on... question is whether it was a side effect of her early alchemy practice with the stuff, and/or necessity.

>>19615

>In my mind the criteria for becoming a witch is systematically removing the parts of yourself which define you as human, namely the three worms/corpses from Daoism:

I mean that does very much makes sense with the lore, considering the base spell to consider yourself a fully fledged magician, either from humanity, or even a full born magician is called destroy /* abandon worms.

*funnily enough there's a different spell depending on whether you're a human intending to turn into a magician, or if you're a natural born magician using the spell, (I think it was 'destroy' for human and 'abandon' for natural magician,) odd that.

also:
>I think that's how Marisa used to be, then she gained a more realistic view of Mima, not as clouded by one-sided affection.

that still doesn't quite juve with how Marisa is still living in what according to the music CDs is Mima's old house, nor keeping the star magic (along with Orries sun one of her... well not spellcards since those weren't a thing by that point... Spells?) that was Mima's even up to this point.

>Marisa is all about stealing and copying other people's tricks. Even the mini-hakkero was made by Rinnosuke and its signature Master Spark was something Marisa copied off Yuuka.

Patchy does point out that learning from other's work is what magicians largely do, it just seems Marisa is pretty good at it. (especially considering that Master Spark wasn't even a spell starting out and just Yuuka throwing power about.) and when it was a spell, namely Non-Directional Laser she copied that one real quick (Master Spark: observed TH4, Marisa uses it TH6. Non-Direction Laser: observed TH6, used in TH7)

on a slightly related note to this point: looking at the Grimoire of Marisa... it was Marisa that turned Fantasy Nature into a spellcard for Reimu.

kinds lines up with something... that I swear I read was canon but I can't find the reference to I guess take with a pinch of salt:

But I recall reading somewhere that Marisa was the one who created the danmaku method that allowed the regular humans of the village to participate in spellcard duels in any fashion... slight problem though as the wording I recall went something along the lines of 'so simple even fairies can use it.' which... would mean its kinda Marisa's fault that fairies swarm in each spellcard incident XP

>Of course as a side effect the physical body of the magician breaks down, meaning unless your a Magician who specializes in magic relating to the body, like Byakuren, you'll grow weak.

...I'm not sure if Patchy counts as an example of that or not, was her issue with Mercury canon or fanon? (and Alice only recently changed into one so wouldn't have hit that point yet leaving aside the whole Makai thing.)

...actually going back to a second to >>19614
>n the case of Reimu it raises a lot of questions (Like why she isn't raising the next generation of Hakurei shrine maidens)

...maybe Yukari is going off the same idea Mima mentioned at the end of the PC98 era...
and I would point out even in her 20s you'd expect Reimu to be starting work on that if she was going to. so probably a combination of laziness, distance from most of the other humans in gensokyo (youkai shrine and all.) ...and Yukari I would venture the guess.

>>19616
I'm going to be honest, I don't think Marisa has a reason to move out. Mima isn't living there anymore and Gensokyo probably has a pretty harsh housing market for people living outside the village. Seriously imagine how expensive it would be, most youkai, who would be the landowners, probably aren't open to selling or renting.

But on the subject of the next Hakurei, Aya mentions how the next Hakurei is chosen or found or maybe she has relatives in the outside world? Either way it doesn't seem to be an issue, the only times I've seen it come up in fanworks either are Reimu going:
>You don't understand I have to rape you so I can pregnate
So I tend to see the idea as a bit silly. Besides, overly dominant or desperate girls are better when they're tall and mountain-like instead of Reimu-sized, so it's not really to my taste. After all, the contrast of the before and after is better when they eventually mellow out and become more self-confident in a healthy way. For me Reimu is closer to the blushing bride type who doesn't know what to do, or someone burdened who wouldn't think of passing on her duty to her children.

>>19617
>>19616
>Aya mentions how the next Hakurei is chosen or found or maybe she has relatives in the outside world?
You both misunderstand. I'm not saying Reimu needs a successor insofar that she needs a kid. I'm saying if she's hitting her mid 40 she really should be looking at a apprentice.

>the only times I've seen it come up in fanworks either are Reimu going: You don't understand I have to rape you so I can pregnate
I'm almost curious.

>For me Reimu is closer to the blushing bride type who doesn't know what to do, or someone burdened who wouldn't think of passing on her duty to her children.
I don't like Reimu enough to imagine her as anything other than a incredibly naggy and lazy wife who largely just gets you to do all the physical labor.

>>19618
I mean I don't think Reimu would be a very good teacher in the first place, she does everything by instinct, and the series runs on simpson time so it's not like there's a ticking clock. If I wanted to write a story about Reimu's successor I'd probably have Reimu recalcitrant to do so for one reason of another, so it becomes a point of tension for the narrative to address. Although I think a story about that could be fun/interesting. You don't typically see stories about the main cast retiring and passing on the mantle.

On the wife subject, honestly I struggle to imagine Reimu as a wife at all, I think it's something she wouldn't be equipped for and would stress over. At the same time she has so many friends and freeloaders to help it could go any number of ways.
Kasen and Auun would probably be the best. I think Suika and Shion would be terrible here. But I think she'd try if she really did love the person she married. Although I suppose you could write a story ala the HSE, Shrine Daughter of Paradise, or The Shrine Husband of Paradise. But honestly I'm not really interested in writing about being married to Reimu. It's just not something exciting to me so at the same time although I disagree on your take of a married Reimu, I don't really care to talk about it.
Now Yuugi on the other hand, she's perfect!